‘The Crucible’ An Interview With Executive Coach & Wilderness leader Jan Rutherford
The Destiny Awakening Interviews is a podcast with Andrew Wayfinder and his guests.
Every week (sometimes more) we have a short focused interview with an expert, author, speaker designed to bring you powerful insights, inspiration and ways to break free, live life by your vision and values, and make a difference in our changing and challenging world.
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Andrew Hryniewicz
So hello everyone, and a very warm welcome to another edition of the Destiny Awakening Interviews.
I’m Andrew Wayfinder Hryniewicz. And I’m joined today by Jan Rutherford, executive coach, TEDx speaker, author, podcaster and wilderness expedition leader.
A very warm welcome to you Jan and where are you hanging out today?
Jan Rutherford
Hey, thanks for having me. I’m in Oregon, and it’s actually a nice sunny day here in the Pacific Northwest.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Oh, good for you. What part of Oregon?
Jan Rutherford
Just south of Portland. An hour and a half from Mount Hood, and an hour and a half from the coast.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Well, that sounds pretty perfect.
Jan Rutherford
Yeah, it’s pretty nice.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Okay. Well, now on to the work that you’re doing.
A former Green Beret, Jan founded “Self Reliant Leadership” at selfreliantleadership.com and leads “The Crucible Wilderness Expeditions” with executives and veterans, to help leaders develop the grit, character, purpose and trust that underpins all extraordinary teams and results.
And, a senior instructor at the University of Colorado’s Denver School of Business, Jan also teaches leadership in the US and Ireland. He’s the co-host of “The Leadership Podcast” and author of “The Littlest Green Beret: On Self Reliant Leadership”.
So thank you again for your time today.
Jan Rutherford
Yeah, it’s a pleasure.
Andrew Hryniewicz
And we’re going to be speaking about “The Crucible”. And Jan is going to unpack that idea and his work for us in six questions.
So the first question: Who is your ideal client? And what’s the transformation you help them achieve?
Jan Rutherford
Yeah, most of the folks I work with are senior executives, and Fortune 500 companies and even midsize businesses. And by mid-size, anywhere from 30 million to 200 million, or 200 million to 1 billion.
But it’s senior executives grappling with organizational issues.
And also, part of The Crucible Expeditions…
I lead those same people and we pair them with military veterans, who are transitioning from active duty service to the business world.
So both those folks I consider my constituents
Andrew Hryniewicz
Okay great.
And then the next question would be: What’s the biggest challenge they face?
But I’m guessing that they might have very different challenges, or they might, surprisingly, have the same challenges.
Jan Rutherford
Yeah, it would be the latter…
If I were to group it into the two things I work with people the most, one is their “Busyness.”
Just the fact that they struggle with just managing their own time…
Every single person I work with wants to spend more time in more strategic areas, that they know is going to move themselves, other people and the business.
The other thing that I spend a lot of time with people on is what I would categorize as “Misaligned Expectations”.
And by that — whether people are managing up, down, sideways — there’s a difficult conversation that needs to be had.
And the reason that difficult conversation needs to be had, is somebody is not doing what somebody else thinks they should be doing. Or behaving the way they think they should be behaving.
And normally, or usually I should say, it’s gone on way too long. So now it’s really “a difficult conversation”.
And, part of it is the ground rules weren’t established at the very beginning… of how the two people or the groups were going to communicate and resolve conflict… and use healthy debate to actually produce better outcomes
Andrew Hryniewicz
And I think that touches on all the work around trust in teams, and creating a safe place where you can actually make mistakes, and explore, and figure stuff out?
Jan Rutherford
Yeah, well exactly.
And part of that is not just the interpersonal skills required, but like you said, shaping an environment that’s safe and where trust can flourish. And that’s difficult.
And that’s the transition that leaders make when they go from leading teams to leading an organization… basically senior executive roles. Starting to look at the system’s cause and effect.
And, what are the things that we need to do to shape the culture? That will change behaviors overall? And that’s difficult. It’s hard.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Okay, so that ties in with question number three: What’s the number one insight you would share with people in that situation to help?
Jan Rutherford
Well, it’s the same insight that we gain on “The Crucible Expeditions”…
No matter what… every person… and we’ve had hundreds of people go through. And the takeaway is always, “I need to slow down to speed up.”
It is as simple as that.
They’ve got to stop being so busy and look around and say, “What is essential? What decision do I need to make, that will matter for a long time?”
And, that’s difficult. You know, we’re just so wrapped up in activity and busyness. And we lose sight of what the results are and the outcomes we’re after, instead of just the busyness in the activity.
We’ve got to replace our reward system. We’re rewarded by being busy and needed, and making quick decisions.
You know the long term thinking is much more difficult…
And, short term wise, it’s a lot less rewarding.
You might have to wait weeks or months to see the fruits of your labor, as you will.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Reminds me of the number one regret people have in hospice, is “I never really did what I wanted to do with my life.”
Jan Rutherford
Right? Yeah.
Andrew Hryniewicz
And then to add insult to injury, the number two regret is “I didn’t spend enough time with the people I loved.”
Jan Rutherford
Yep. It’s the same.
I remember Marshall Goldsmith, who is a well-known coach in the United States, saying to a small group of us one time…
He said, “I can read your mind. I know what all of you are thinking right this second.”
And we’re thinking “What?”
He goes, “Here’s what you’re thinking. In three weeks, when everything slows down, I’m going to blank…”
And he’s right.
I mean, that’s the lie we tell ourselves, that this crazy busyness will be over soon. And it won’t be, unless we change… Unless we start saying ‘no’ to things.
And that’s hard. Because many of us are pleasers at heart. We don’t want to say no. We want to be needed. We want that short term fix. And, a lot of it, really, is delayed gratification.
That’s the transition we have to make as leaders.
Andrew Hryniewicz
It’s the marshmallow test all over again.
Jan Rutherford
Exactly.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Okay, question number four: What concept book program talk or possibly experience has been most impactful in your own development?
Jan Rutherford
I had a mentor who was a retired two-star general from the Air Force. And he went on to be vice chair of a major engineering consulting firm, and he was just the greatest.
And, what he taught me is that…
If I had to give one piece of advice to a CEO, this is it: “People support what they helped create. Period.”
And it’s so simple, but that’s it. And that doesn’t mean work as a “do-ocracy”. But it does mean: you might not get a vote, but you get a voice.
That’s what we’re really after, as we lead, is not compliance. What we’re after is commitment…
And the way to get commitment is “people support what they help create.”
And, Simon Sinek evangelizes the ‘why’…
It’s the same principle. You know, people support what they help create. They got to get behind, get their shoulder into it. So, that would be it.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Okay, great. So question five: What free resource would you like to share with the audience to help them?
Jan Rutherford
Well, if you go to my website selfreliantleadership.com, there’s a coaching course out there, on the power of journaling. And you can, if you sign up for my newsletter, you can get that free.
And I’ve got a ton of resources out there, you know, almost 200 videos. We’ve recorded over 250 podcasts. All that you can find at selfreliantleadership.com.
Andrew Hryniewicz
Okay. That will be also in the show notes. So our last question, number six. What should I have asked you that I didn’t?
Jan Rutherford
Well, I thought about this.
I think the question to ask is, “Why do you do what you do?” You know, I mean, you outlined what I do… And there’s a lot of people that do that.
But if we go back to a little bit of Simon Sinek, “Why do you do it?”
You know, early on as a teenager, I became a green beret. And I was around Medal of Honor recipients, and people that had survived being prisoners of war. And I was around these great leaders.
And I saw some of them, because of their experiences, were great. Some of them were great because of the position they held. But I also notice there’s a lot of great leaders that didn’t have rank, they didn’t have those experiences.
And I was fascinated by what made them effective. Why I would just follow them to do anything.
And what I started to realize…
As great as the leaders that I had experienced, I was starting to experience, as a young man, some really bad leadership.
And I realized that unlike physicians, as leaders we don’t take a “Hippocratic oath.”
We don’t say “Do no harm”.
But we should…
Every time someone’s promoted into a leadership role, they should have to take an oath that says, “Do no harm.”
Because we can affect people’s physical, emotional and mental health for the good or for the not so good. And so, I’ve just been fascinated my entire life and been a student of leadership.
And I am on this quest to figure out what makes people more effective.
Because when they’re great leaders, they’re going to have great teams, and there’s a ripple effect throughout partners and associates and families in the community.
And I think, that’s my little way of trying to make the world a little bit of a better place, is helping leaders be more effective. And, I just love what I do.
I honestly feel like if you’re lucky enough that you don’t have a job or a career, but you get to pursue a calling. And, that’s what I feel like the last 10 years have been for me, and I’m very grateful.
Andrew Hryniewicz
That’s a perfect place to end on a really beautiful vision…
So thank you, Jan so much for your time today.
Jan Rutherford
Thanks. It was a pleasure being on your show.
Narrator
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