‘BEyond Leadership: An Interview with Leadership Expert Noa Ronen

The Destiny Awakening Interviews is a podcast with Andrew Wayfinder and his guests.

Every week (sometimes more) we have a short focused interview with an expert, author, speaker designed to bring you powerful insights, inspiration and ways to break free, live life by your vision and values, and make a difference in our changing and challenging world.

Listen to the podcast at: The Destiny Awakening Interviews Episode 8

Andrew Hryniewicz

So hello everyone and a very warm welcome to another edition of the Destiny Awakening Interviews. I’m Andrew Wayfinder. And I’m joined today by Noa Ronen, your out-of-the-box coach, author of “BEyond Leadership: From AwareLess to AwareNess”, a vlogger, disrupter and coffee lover.

Noa Ronen

Yeah. And you said a ‘coffee shot conversation’… So that pulled my attention. Yes. And they didn’t get my coffee yet.

So, you get me on pure energy of water.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Holy cow.

Noa Ronen

Yeah.

Andrew Hryniewicz

So very warm welcome to you know Noa. Where are you hanging out today?

Noa Ronen

I am in Raleigh, North Carolina, which is the capital of North Carolina. And my accent is not from there, for sure.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Yeah, I was gonna say. You know, in the south, they got this saying “You’re not from around here… Are you?”

Noa Ronen

No. I still don’t know how to say that “y’all.”

Andrew Hryniewicz

Well, and did you know that the plural of “y’all” is “all y’all”?

Noa Ronen

No I didn’t. Thank you.

Yeah. It’s probable people can hear English is my second language. So, every day, I learn a new word, and I’ve been in the US for 15 years or so.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Well, and that gets made to your work. Because the reason I wanted to speak with Noa today is not just because of her 20 plus years experience in change and project management, human resources and coaching. But because of her mission, and how she got started.

Her mission is “I help my clients to dare so they can create the change they care about”, which is something very close to my heart.

And her start was “My first experience as a leadership coach was when I served in the Israeli Navy. I helped officers learn what does it mean to lead by example, and walk their talk.”

Thank you Noa for your time today.

Noa Ronen

Thank you for having me.

Andrew Hryniewicz

And our title is “BEyond Leadership” with the emphasis on be. So Noa’s going to unpack this idea for us in six questions. So the time starts now. And the first question is, who is your ideal client, and what’s the transformation you help them achieve?

Noa Ronen

So my ideal clients mostly can be executives, and also social leaders. So for me, my passion is to work with people that look beyond profit. There is something there, something beyond. And it doesn’t have to be that they work in a nonprofit.

But they want to create an impact… and it can be inside a corporate setting, or when they create their own business, or leave the company.

So there is always something that goes beyond the profit itself… or the title itself… and the impact they can create in the community… or in the culture that they want to create.

So there is a change there. There is always that thing of the change that they want to create.

And most of my clients are like that, and I always encourage them. They challenge the norms. They will ask the question “Why do we need to do it this way?” So those are those are my clients.

And you know, when you want to go through a change, there are lots of challenges there. It brings a lot of stuff. And that stuff’s mostly emotions, and mindset, and limiting thoughts or beliefs, and perspectives that can create that disruptions, and kind of shake you up. And that’s where I enjoy to do the work.

And there are the organizations I work with. Organizations that have the mentality of the change, or encourage the change. Because they want to create something they care about — not just to disrupt people, or make them feel uncomfortable, but there’s something beyond that.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Okay, so that actually ties in… I think you’ve almost answered question number two, but I’ll still ask it. What is the biggest challenge your clients typically are facing? What brings them through the door to work with you?

Noa Ronen

Yeah, so I think it relates to the “BEyond leadership” idea I’m talking about. And I believe that we have two energies. Kind of like Yin and Yang, the being and the doing.

And the doing energy… and by the way, most of my clients (and I am too) are doers. Like get it done, task oriented. So there is that ‘doing’ piece of the actions: what it is that they want to do, where we all have that energy.

But there is also, I believe, another energy which is the ‘being’ and that’s what I’m talking about. For me, it’s a container that consists of the emotions, and the mindset, and the fears, the hopes and aspirations, and beliefs and perspectives. And that’s where things get messy.

So in my book, I say, go from Aware-less to Aware-ness, but in the middle there is the Aware-mess.

And we need both. It’s not that the being is better than the doing or the doing is better than the being. It’s just paying attention to bring them both so we can create a change. Because if I’m more in my doing, I don’t see the change I want. And if I’m more in my being, I don’t see the change I want.

And mostly I don’t see a movement at all. I feel stuck.

And I experienced that when I went through a relocation. From a ‘get it done’ executive, and, suddenly, I’m in a new country. And I’m trying to bring all the actions that worked really well in Israel, the country I’m originally from. And then I’m in the US, and I’m trying to replicate everything with my actions, and it just doesn’t work.

And that’s what I see many times is that we try to take the actions that work in both as to where we are then especially the doers, and suddenly, it doesn’t work.

So, for example, last week a client told me “I’m really good with influencing one on one, but now I’m in a situation, that it’s not scalable anymore. I need to learn how to say it in the big room.” And mostly, I do recommend to do it one on one when we want to influence ideas, but he just got to a point that it didn’t work any more, and he needed to bring new skills that he’s not used to using.

And that’s what happens, that is how we learn in new situations like in leadership and change. To understand that the actions that brought us to where we are, in some situations or some moments in our life, will not serve us any more.

And then we can get stuck if we don’t learn how to engage the being and doing.

And I was stuck, Andrew, for five years after the move to the US until I figured it out. And it was another long road. But it’s understanding and seeing what was really happening to me.

But what I do in my work with people is based on my learnings from me being stuck.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Yeah, I think in many cases, people all have to learn this. I think we all have our own version of the scene in Jaws where they see the shark for the first time and they say, “Oh, we’re gonna need a bigger boat.”

It’s when you realise the old ways do not, are not, can not work any more.

Noa Ronen

I think I didn’t even want to see the shark. It’s like the shark didn’t exist. I control the shark. I control the jaws. I control everything.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Yeah, well, that’s human nature. We all want to go past the graveyard hoping nothing’s gonna stir.

Okay, so that I think that ties into… we’re just over five minutes. Question number three, What’s the number one insight you would share with people to help them right now?

Noa Ronen

So beyond the being and doing, I have a saying “The problem is not the problem. The problem is in the solution.”

Many times people come to me and they say, “See my problem is that I need to go in this direction.” And they get so stuck with that solution that they don’t see anything else.

They believe that this solution is the only way to go. Because they see other people do that. And they get stuck with this solution.

So, for example, yesterday an executive told me “I’m too much. I need to learn how to be less too much.”

And I said, “So, let’s see how we might just be being stuck right now with a solution… that of ‘how to be less too much’. Maybe there is a new way to look at this and find a different solution?”

And that’s why I call myself an out-of-the-box-coach. Because when my clients come with that specific solution, it’s not either or. I say, “Maybe we can put the either or aside, and see if there is a third solution or fourth solution” and create freedom to create.

So ask yourself. “Are you stuck with the problem? Or with a solution?”

Andrew Hryniewicz

Yeah. What I often ask in a situation like that, when they might have proposed something to me and I say, “Okay, if this is the answer, what’s the question?”

Noa Ronen

That’s a good one. Yeah.

And it’s really limited as well, because we get stuck in how we want to do things from those limitations, rather than be free to create what works for us.

Andrew Hryniewicz

I know, it’s quite quite remarkable the shackles we create in our heads. Yeah, the patterns… and we have no idea they’re there.

So question number four, What concept, book, program or talk has been most influential or impactful for you? Personally?

Noa Ronen

You’re in London and I really love Simon Sinek. It’s probably not the first time you’ve hear that answer.

He thinks differently. And I like those people that poke that say, “But who said we have to do things this way?”

Of course, many people know his conversation about the ‘why’ that comes from a place of purpose, and really understanding what is the ‘why’ behind what you do.

I really love his new book “The Infinite Game. It’s not his idea. It comes from game theory and philosophy.

But the idea that we try to play finite games — which are final and set with rules — in situations that are not finite. That’s important.

So actually he has a lot of interviews about this in his new book. And I find, for people who are executives and lead a lot of changes, it’s just a fresh perspective, a different way of looking at (situations)…

And I liked what he said, since I wrote my book. You sometimes think “I wish I wrote it differently before I published it”. So he says, “I put it as a leadership style, but actually, I believe it’s a mindset.”

And I believe a lot of stuff around leadership is mindset.

So I loved it when he said, kind of calling himself out, and saying, “It’s not what I mentioned in the book, it’s actually a mindset that you bring into your leadership.”

So I love that perspective. And I believe he has a lot of information that can be interesting to leaders.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Okay, great. So question number five, Is there a free resource you’d like to share with the audience that could help them?

Noa Ronen

So on my website, there are two resources that you can check out.

First, I have a lot of articles for executives, so you can check that area. And in my speaking area, there are resources for people… for groups I speak to. So there are great resources about accountability.

Many people talk about procrastination, or my model, the Dare model, D-A-R-E, how you help yourself reflect better. So there are some resources there and even I think a few free chapters from my book that you can check out. So just check out that area and help people find value in it.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Okay, so that’s it. www.noaronencoaching.com.

Okay, great. And the last question, what should I have asked you that I didn’t?

Noa Ronen

I don’t know. What would you like to ask me? I’m going to flip the question. I have to break the rules.

Andrew Hryniewicz

What did you learn as a coach in the Israeli Navy?

Noa Ronen

That’s a good one. I think it’s the understanding that if you want your people to follow you, it’s not just saying, “follow me”.

You need to create some kind of partnership and relationship with those people. One that they feel they can trust you… when the moment comes that you need to go to a death or life situation, that they will want to trust you.

And you need to work on a lot of your being. They will have that experience because we can smell if you don’t feel yourself as a leader or if you you lose your confidence.

And many of those officers are young. They’re 20. And they lead people that are 18 and 19, and sometimes a year older than them.

But these are young people who need to learn how to hold themselves as leaders, and make sure that the other people can feel that they trust their vision.

And it starts, again, with how you are holding yourself, and how much you believe in your ability to do that. And that’s internal work. It’s not just what you say. What I say… it’s not how you are doing leadership. It’s how you are being as a leader.

There is no recipe. It’s learning about yourself.

How you find that special place in yourself to hold yourself in a way that people trust you. People can feel when you fake it. So that’s maybe my underlying idea.

People can smell when you fake it.

Andrew Hryniewicz

That’s a great insight. So thank you, Noa. This has been a great interview and thanks so much for your time.

Noa Ronen

Thank you. I appreciate you for having me.

Andrew Hryniewicz

Okay, bye.